Which engine swap?

[SupaMonkey]

http://forums.civicland.com/newthrea...newthread&f=75

I was hoping you guys could help me choose an engine for my 93 Civic 4dr.

First off, let me tell you what I have available here in South Africa...
Dont Have
1) We have never had any Integra's / Acura's / Del Sol's / ANY Type-R's
2) We have only had the 89-CRX and I wouldnt want that in my car anyway (too old and too scarce)

Do/Have had
1) All the honda civic's (minus Type-R's)
2) All the honda CR-V's
3) The latest honda accord
4) 1990-1997 Honda Prelude


So if Im not mistaken, my options are
a) D-series motor
b) B-series motor
c) H-series motor
d) K-series motor


- I don't really see a point in sticking with the D since it couldnt really get -that- much better, right?
- I recently read that B-series is being phased out and K is the way to go
- H-series is kinda scarce and though I can find an engine, Im scared if something breaks somewhere along the line, ill be screwed. It also hasnt been around since 1997, so once again, the 'phased out theory' comes into play
- K-series motor, seems to be the best option, it is the newest so I know I will still find spares in years to come and it will be my safest bet but also my most expensive.

Please keep in mind that South Africa does not really have much of a car sports scene, so getting something as simple as a Hasport Engine Mount kit for any of the above, isnt as readily available and chances are that I will have to get them custom made, etc.

What are your thoughts out there ?

[Siege911]

what's that link at the top of your post?

Well, my thoughts out here:

1.) read up
-you should read through this site a lot before asking a question... here, read this link and answer the questions (it's in the tech section by the way)

http://forums.civicland.com/tech-inf...est-motor.html

2.) Please do a search... on here, on Honda-tech.com, wherever... I'm not kidding this "which engine into mah civic" question gets asked all the time

3.) Before you get your heart set on a swap, see what you can do with the d. What engine is in there right now? Check out turbod16.com and d-series.org. Both of those sites can show you how to make your d quicker, which is the route I'm taking. Why spend $4k to swap in a 170hp (crank) b-series when I can rebuild my d and boost it to 300whp for that same amount?

4.) I understand you're asking for our opinions due to the limited availability of engines in your country, however we need to know your budget and power goals first. Answer the questions in that first link I gave you then come back.

5.) Don't get discouraged. No matter what any e-thug says (including me, although I don't like to refer to myself as an e-thug), it's your car and you should do what you want with it.

[Calesta]

How easily can you import parts from the US? I don't think it would be too difficult to box up something like a set of engine mounts and ship them to you.

[SupaMonkey]

Siege_Engine911
Sorry about that link at the top of my post, it was in error :P

1) Thanks for the link, I will have a look through it now.

2) Yeah, I know about that, but like you say in point (4) - I wanted to filter down my options and not read through 29384 posts on something that isnt even an option for me

3) Yeah, its not the first time Ive read that on a forum. However, I have got 2 (92 & 93) Honda civics. Both have given me distributor problems, and my main one has given me lots of distributor problems as well as compression loss issues (has happened twice within a year).
Having said that, I am quite tempted to move from the D-series motor to try and get to a completely new system and hopefully move away from some of the issues I've been facing. Furthermore, since I would have to spend so much cash (for the second time) to fix the compression issue, I might as well go to another series motor (currently my options, in order of preference, are K24,K20,H22,B20).

4) Ill answer the questions below

5) I wont get discouraged; Ive managed to find alternative transport means and my poor civic has been collecting dust for quite a few months now. What really ticks me off is that I had just finished spending and good couple of k on a new sound system, rims, tyres and CarPC ;( No matter what however, I've always said I would never get rid of my civic - it will always be my project, even if not always my primary means of transportation

Calesta
Its not -hard- to import stuff from the US/Europe/Asia. I have done it before (not for heavy car components though). What really hits me is:
a) Expensive Wire Transfer Fees (about 30U$D a shot)
b) Extremely expensive courier/transport charges (especially for heavy/large items)
c) Weak currency, so stuff can be quite expensive sometimes ;/



Answers to questions in that link:
1) Do a search HERE It's been asked 400838 to the 5th power times.
Will do...

2) What is your short term budget
Currently, I am budgeting for about (R30000-R35000)+- 4000-4500 U$D

3) What is your long term budget
I dont really have one, like I said, this will be my project until I die, though I would like an operating car sometime this century

4) What are your Horse power/torque/track times for your car. Not just now but in the long run.
The last time I checked was when I put in my (piggyback?) ECU and they dyno'd it and so forth. The dynometer reported (if I remember correctly) 86kw - "at the wheels" (according to the guy there). He said to add +- 20% to find out what the "engine output" actually is.

5) Do you have the means to do the work yourself. (this goes into the over all cost)
Not at all, as much as I love my car and cars all n all; I am very much a complete n00b. Though I am willing to learn everything, I dont think one should mess around with something like a car unless one knows what one is doing :P

This is a quote I got from some guy down in Cape Town which is about 1200km away from where I live (so it would be quite hard to get there in a non functioning car :P); but its just so you guys know more or less what stuff goes for down here:
R15000-00 (2072U$D) H22A motor with transmission
R 2300-00 (318U$D) Computer
R 2250-00 (311U$D) Shift Linkage needed for conversion
R 9000-00 (1244U$D) Motor swap kit (mountings, brackets,adapters)
R 3500-00 (484U$D) Custom side shafts
R 1000-00 (139U$D) Exhaust mod
R12000-00 (1658U$D) Labour

(1U$D:= +-R7.24)

6) Ultimately, it's your car, it's your motor and it's your expectations. Answering these questions and HAVING THEM AVAILABLE FOR US TO SEE. Will help us answer your questions.
...

[97-ferio]

In South Africa, if it's available, you could take the B16 from a EK Civic SiR, or even from an EG6 SiR/SiRII...great swap for your gen civic. The CR-V motors are also another good option, and are a lot cheaper most times than a DOHC Vtec motor...unless you got the hookup. Then just do your Vtec head swap later on when your funds rebuild again Also, don't forget about the H22 from the Prelude and Accord. Umm, but as I said, I'm not too sure which model civics you have available there in South Africa. Are your folk's cars out there the EDM (european domestic market) ones, or the JDM ones? Anywho, what I do know is that I've always wanted to go to South Africa to surf ever since I first saw Bruce Brown's "The Endless Summer"...always wanted to go to Cape Town and see Table Top Mountain, and surf at Jeffries Bay/ Cape St. Francis...those places look so nice on film. well, good luck with this. Cheers

[SupaMonkey]

Hehe, thanks for the help. Well we dont have the SiR's and such so that wouldnt work ;(
I believe we get the european versions of the cars, and even so - we dont get all the models.

On a side note: South Africa isnt bad, perhaps only for a holiday though. Crime sucks. Corruption sucks. Extremely High Tax sucks. Worst of all 'car scene' especially to do things like this is almost non-existent. Cape Town isn't bad - been there a couple of times. Very windy and overcast most of the time tho

[Calesta]

Ah, I didn't think of the currency exchange rates. The prices you listed really aren't that bad though, and shipping things like engine mounts really shouldn't be that much if you're willing to wait a few weeks for stuff to show up. I've shipped tons of things internationally before, and it's not as bad as you would think. Just don't buy an engine or a transmission overseas.

On your budget, I would recommend building a B20 from a CR-V or getting an H22 from one of the Preludes. The H swaps are getting more and more popular in the US now, and engine mount kits can be had for under $500USD from places like Innovative Mounts. If you swap in a B series block, you can use all factory mounts from the Civic and the Integra. You could probably get busted stock mounts from someone for the price of shipping, then drop some polyurethane windshield adhesive in to rebuild and solidify them- that way you have nice solid poly mounts for under $100 to swap in a B block!

If you never had any Acuras and never had any Civics with B16s in them, you're going to have trouble finding a B series transmission to work in your car. You'll have to source one of those. The advantage to doing the B is the ease of mounting, and the fact that you won't have to have custom axles made. You can just use the stock B series axles with your transmission. If you decide to go with the B block and can find a transmission locally, I would recommend starting with a B20. You can get a set of pistons and rods shipped to you for not too much, and a non-VTEC B20 with high compression pistons in it can actually make quite a bit of power. The torque is absolutely wonderful too.

If you're willing to ship in a set of engine mounts,

Innovative Mounts - Product Info ($425 USD)
Hasport Billet Mounts - EGH2 ($600 USD)

the H22 would probably be the way to go. All the parts would be available from donor Preludes, and you could find someone local to fab the axles for you. Engine management could be taken care of with an Integra GSR ECU (light, easy to ship).

Hopefully that will help to narrow things down a bit.

[SupaMonkey]

Thanks Calesta

I think right now I've narrowed it down to the K24 or H22.

The K will be far more expensive though, and the H seems to have more oomph according to wikipedia?

Money aside, which would you guys go for? Which can be played with more (reboring, turbo's, superchargers, etc.)?
Its not that Im rich, Im actually quite poor :P but rather that I only want to do this once and I would rather do it properly the first time

[Siege911]

I'd go with an h... cost of k swaps is still a lot around here

[Calesta]

Originally Posted by SupaMonkey

Thanks Calesta

I think right now I've narrowed it down to the K24 or H22.

The K will be far more expensive though, and the H seems to have more oomph according to wikipedia?

Money aside, which would you guys go for? Which can be played with more (reboring, turbo's, superchargers, etc.)?
Its not that Im rich, Im actually quite poor :P but rather that I only want to do this once and I would rather do it properly the first time

Both (B and H) have pretty good support here in the US, and once you get the engine in you can play with it all you want. Shipping other parts aside from the engine and transmission from the US should be relatively easy for you.

The best H does have more power out of the box than the K, but the K has more ultimate potential. If you're looking to stay on a budget, definitely go with the H- unless you can find a B transmission, then go with the B20. You can make awesome power on a B20 without VTEC. The H22 can be quite potent in just about any setup too- turbocharging without going inside the engine to strengthen it can get you to 350whp with the right turbo and tune, and naturally aspirated without going inside can get you to 230-240whp or so on pump gas. It's all up to you.