A Few Questions About Turbo Kits

[estebones]

Well I figured it would be a good ide to start shopiing around for a good turbo kit and I am curious to find out if this is all I will need?

This is what comes with the revhard kit for a 2002 si:
Rev Hard Cast Iron Manifold
Rev Hard T3T4 Turbo
Rev Hard Intercooler (28x6.5x3)
Turbo Smart Wastegate (7 psi)
Vortech Blow-Off Valve
2.25" Aluminized Mandrel Bent Piping
2.5" Downpipe
Rev Hard FC (Fuel Controller)
Silicone Hoses and Clamps
Steel braided -3 Oil line
Oil Return Line
High Pressure Silicon Line
Vacuum Lines
Vacuum Tee's
Price: $3,999.00

This is what comes with the GReddy Kit:
Part Number: 11550024
Model: Civic SI 2002 - 2004
Desc: T517Z
includes:
emanage
4x 440cc injectors
cast-iron manifold
down pipe adpter
air intake
piping
all the necessary hardware.
Price: $3,449.00
Type: intergral wastegate
Code: EP3
________________________________

Note that the greddy kit does not come with a FMIC (unlike the rev hard kit), seems like its more complete. IMO Either way, install & tune will cost me about $600.00 at a nice reputable shop in Houston.

So what else would I need with the Greddy kit besides the BOV and the FMIC? Also the Greddy kit does not produce a CEL as opposed to the revhard kit(emissions matter a bit for me as this car is pretty new. Oh yeah I'm sure Ill be able to find better prices for either kit but I'm just wandering as to which if the kits is more of a complete kit? better value? has anyone had experiences with either of these brands' turbos?

any help would be appreciated
--Esteban

[hkspowers]

I personally would look into a drag kit. They usually go for around 3k and are in my opinion the best and most complete kit. I am not sure if they come with an a/f controller. I would use the Apexi Vafc II and u should have a nice set up.

[cynosurecivic]

im going through the same sort of search. mainly interested in the greddy kit for my b16. mainly cuz i dont want to spend 3k right away. i found the greddy kit for around 2,000. i figured i would worry about the intercooler after i bought the turbo kit. i go to www.homemadeturbo.com alot and theres a guy on there selling intercoolers for like 225 shipped.

what are all of your opinions on the greddy kits?, will i be satidfied?, are they upgradable?

[hkspowers]

they are good kits they use remanufactured mitubishi turbos. I guess they are upgradeble but not sure . Your best bet for a cost effective turbo is to do a LOT of homework and find the perfect setup do NOT ghetto rig anything, and piece togather one. Using quality parts. May take a bit longer but I bet you will be happier.

[cynosurecivic]

yeah ive already kinda ruled out the ginnie rigging with the used parts. i have thought about pieceing together a kit of good parts. but i would feel safer investing in a tested and proven, name brand kit.

the website selling the kits is www.city-speed.com
anyone ever hear of or deal with before. good prices there.

[hkspowers]

Yeah I have a friend who is a master of the art of Jimmy rig. And it shows... Take it from me Don't go that route. I swear sometimes I wonder what people are thinking when they do things like that. Oh well just makes us look better. LOL!

[NeoPheonix]

What is Jimmy rig anyway?

[cynosurecivic]

um, making something work, even if you dont have the right parts or tools. some one back me up on this one.

[UniquelyGeneric]

Always called it "ghetto riggin" or "nigga riggin," but yeah, kinda like when a friend of mine who drove a Celica with a full body kit fucked up his front bumper, so he put the stock one back on (temporarily) by attaching it with zipties and drove it around for several weeks.

[spooninphilly]

Rev hard usually tends to come out on top....Why you ask? Because for that price, or a little more or a little less, they mix and match to your specs and what you need. Thats the good part.

What do you need with the kit you get?

Boost controller - without this little expensive bastard, you turbo will in fact "roam" the psi levels, and in turn provide erradic idle and what I like to call "boost hop", a condition that happens when the wastegate vein being the only source of control cannot quite handle the job. With all of these expensive electronic boost controllers with multi-settings and scratch-you-ass technology, know this. Turbos are also used on multi-million dollar ships as well, and can reach sizes of small houses, but do you know how they control boost levels...a basket ball sized ball in a T like tube controlled by an adjustable allowance.....your saying yeah right....but the most simplistic approach is usualy the best...keep that in mind.

Engine management - ah yes, engine management. People talk alot about upgraded fuel systems but no spark advance, or alteration of duty cycles, let alone ecu re-configuration. The fuel controller most kits give you is a pressure controlled disc that is hooked up to you intake manifold. sensing elevated pressure, the disc lets fly more pressure to the fuel for better delivery. Though this product is essential,it is by no means a "fuel controller" speed up the fuel is fine until it gets to your stock injectors reading a stock fuel map and non-altered ignition. hmmm....add this up on your calculator.
You need:
Fuel Contoller.....check
S-AFC - A good piggy back unit altering air/fuel flow,but limited to itsdegree of function...none the less, you need it
Ignition - You need this....More fuel and air is nothing with out the fire to combust it
Map bypass valve - a usefull little gadget, refered to as the "missing link", it can alter how you ecu reads certain pressure levels.
Fuel pump - and dont go with those cheap in-line walbro 255 pumps either, this is actually something that must be matched in porportion to you fuel consumption level.
Injectors - bigger is better for more fuel delivery.
Oil - thin oil makes for proper lubrication and faster cooling.
oil cooler - if your rich enough, get this overpriced liquid intercooler, oil is very hot recirculating through that turbo so many times.

Radiator - Cooling is essential, and a performance radiator and dual fans(constant electric) You may not think about it, but the turbo is creating an atmosphere 1/3 as hot as you radiator was intended to cool. Also, run a colder thermostat, your radiator will kick in earlier than stock to compensate for the extra heat it will create.

Intercooler - the intercooler they give you in the kit is fine, but new types are far supassing the ones they give you in the kit....namely a new to the market W.A.V.E technology. The inner fins of a Tube and Fin designed are infact "waved", of arodynamicly bent fins for unsurpassed airflow.

Turbo Timer - Lets your car breath before it turns itself completely off.

Upgraded throttle body and intake manifold - Better airflow

Open exhaust - think what would happen if you blew into a straw and held the other end.....exactly. Oh yea....worried about back pressure....dont be. If you have a dual cam engine pumping more than 150, backpressure is just an afterthought,and to a certain point, is not a factor in many situations.

gauges - if you want to protect your investment, get the gauges....boost, oil temp, oil pressure, ehaust temp, volt, fuel pressure, etc.


thing you should do....


heat wrap - wrapping the turbo manifold, the intercoolerpipes, so on will insulate cool for warm and vice vesa.

Divorced wastegate - divorcing the wastegate is simple, the discharge to atmosphere creates better flow for the remainder of the exhaust, quicker out is better H.P. plain and simple. The wastegates dump tube is re directed to exit at a more optimized location, not just into the exhaust pipe and out the backlike the rest.


There is one hell of a lot more for you to get....but thats a start. good luck.