Clutch Flywheel Combo

[imported_Lacuna]

You are the first and only person I've ever heard say that. I have two friends boosted with lightened flywheels that have no problems with falling out of boost. In fact both of them said the new clutch helped with staying out of lag. I mean we are only talking about a couple lbs of unsprung weight here.

[Calesta]

Originally posted by Resistance98EX@Aug 5 2005, 12:38 PM
this is incorrect.* Karizmah is right. a lighter flywheel causes you to fall outta boost, on a turbo car.* if we were tlaking about turbo id say dont go with a lighter flywheel, because you need load to create boost...however, were talking about a supercharger here and you get full boost at full throttle.* its different, it doesnt rely on engine load to create boost.* so on a supercharged motor, id go with the lighter flywheel.

Damn, you really don't understand physics do you?!

No, you don't need load to create boost. You just need airflow and positive pressure on the turbine. That's all. Less rotational is a good thing. If the lighter flywheel is causing you to fall out of boost in between shifts, you suck at shifting. That's all there is to it.

[dubcac]

Originally posted by Calesta@Aug 5 2005, 05:00 PM

Damn, you really don't understand physics do you?!

No, you don't need load to create boost.* You just need airflow and positive pressure on the turbine.* That's all.* Less rotational is a good thing.* If the lighter flywheel is causing you to fall out of boost in between shifts, you suck at shifting.* That's all there is to it.

I agree.

[Hybrid_Coupe]

Originally posted by Calesta+Aug 5 2005, 08:00 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Calesta @ Aug 5 2005, 08:00 PM)</div>

Damn, you really don't understand physics do you?!

No, you don't need load to create boost. You just need airflow and positive pressure on the turbine. That's all. Less rotational is a good thing. If the lighter flywheel is causing you to fall out of boost in between shifts, you suck at shifting. That's all there is to it.[/b]

lol ok you build a turbo motor...that makes 500hp...stick a 5lb flywheel on it and tell me if it doesnt take more time to respool the turbo after a shift.

You must not understand a turbocharger...Explain to me, one thing...Why can i not spool my turbo on a free rev? i can rev the shit out to 10,000 and get MAYBE 1lb of boost. Yet...when im driving...I can build 20lbs of boost by 5500? hmm m that doesnt make much sense when we use your theory, since all we need is exhaust velocity on the turbine wheel right? Now that i know that i think im just gunna hook an air compressor up to my turbo and use that to spool it instead of my exhaust.
What causes the turbine blades to spin? i know exactly what your going to see...exhaust flow because of the pressure...guess what, thats only one factor. Heat also makes the turbo spool. How to you build higher cylinder pressure? or do you not know that one either. Load creates cylinder pressure and heat, So does retarded timing, which also cause the turbo to spool quicker, but we arent dealing with that issue right now...therefore creating more exhaust pressure. uh oh...sounds like your theory just went out the window. Here we go physics major, explain to me why boost gets a little bit higher with each progrssive gear? in first gear i get maybe..10-13lbs(with my gate closed) and in second then i can build 20 or more. Oh i bet you didnt know that either...LOAD. I guess your right...load has nothing to do with building boost though...i wish i woulda known that.
Also by your theory there would be absolutely NO reason to go to a larger trim turbo...since all you need is Positive pressure, all us guys that are making 500+ should switch to t25's since that would create the most positive pressure on the turbo.
Man i love being corrected by someone who has never come close to my ability, or probably every will. YOu know i changed the way i acted to people on here but im not gunna sit back and let someone attack me or what i know. THere is a reason I come on here to help people, thats because i know what im doing, ive done it, and i Try to help people to learn from what ive done wrong. You insult the people you are trying to help by telling them To not listen to someone who has way more experience than you. Go back to your college, read some more text books, since thats all you seem to know, And get your degree so you can mess up other peoples cars. But as long as im on here, im not going to let you give people mis-information. If i dont know something, or i make a mistake, i own up to it. I have a couple times on here. Without real world experience all your college means dick to me. So come on here and Show me another lesson outta your text book about spooling turbos...i am waiting to see this.

I gues ive gotten to where i am, simply because i can BS my way through everything. I dont really know anything, and guess my way through it all. I guessed my way to building my own 500+hp motor, i guessed my way into an 11 sec. time slip. I guessed my way at building 3 othr 600+hp motors.(all on stock flywheels BTW)

See and people wonder why Eric got all pissed off at everyone...look at what you people do...instead of simply disagreeing with one persons opinion you insult them and tell them they dont know what they are doing...God...some of you people will never learn...


**Edit** You, as an Admin, should be one of the LAST people to insult someone. Especially another member of your team, Someone appointed AS A TECH to help the members of this site. Simply Put...I think your useless, regardless if you think you know what your doing or not. You obviously arent mature enough to understand differences of opinion, and probably not mature enough to handle the responsibilty of being an admin on the site.

P.S. Anytime you wanna test my ability to shift, as you say im obviously no good at, bring your car down, ill be at battle of the imports in oct. at Famoso raceway, and you can have your shot at me. Bring your car, your dads car, your brothers car, i dont care, ill be running in the street comp class, there will be 3 of us there, a silver 99 hatch, my 98 coupe, and our partners 97 prelude. You can have your shot at any 3 and i will drive any one of them you want me too...So, bring it...put up or shut up, dont insult my ability to drive and not expect to get challenged, you challenged me Now Bring it...Ill be waiting.

[Hybrid_Coupe]

Originally posted by Lacuna@Aug 5 2005, 03:49 PM
You are the first and only person I've ever heard say that. I have two friends boosted with lightened flywheels that have no problems with falling out of boost. In fact both of them said the new clutch helped with staying out of lag. I mean we are only talking about a couple lbs of unsprung weight here.

your boosted friends must be running small turbos. Small turbo = easier to spool up, you gotta remember i dont start coming into boost until about 5...then full boost comes on right about 6-6500. a light weight flywheel isnt that big of a deal if your running a small turbo...like a .68ar T3 or a mitsubishi td05. Im not worried about rotational mass...Im running a type r crank(3lbs heavier than a gsr) and a gsr flywheel(3lbs heavier than the type r flywheel). Now, i will tell you this...I am switching to the Type r flywheel, i do want a little lighter of a flywheel, but on a turbo car, ok let me rephrase that, on a high boost, big turbo, boosted car, i wouldnt go under a 12lb flywheel. And yes, considering where all that weight is, every pound can make a difference. Reciprocating mass on the crank is a big deal.

Maybe i should change how i say it, I dont recommend a light weight flywheel for a big boost, big turbo car. That is what i mean to say, if you plan on going with a big turbo its not a good idea. I guess i gotta remember not everyone on here is going for the same thing i do.

[2000Si]

All this learning about turbochargers is fine and dandy. I welcome the educational reading you've provided. But on the same token... it doesn't have anything to do with my thread.

[Hybrid_Coupe]

sorry about getting off topic...i think you would be fine on an 8lb flywheel. as for clutch, my fav. is action, but ive seen a lot of good things abou the competition clutch, they seem like a good clutch to me, i havent used one yet, but i think thats what im gunna try next.

[Calesta]

Ok, bad wording. I didn't intend to insult you, but when I'm told "that is incorrect" to something that I know is right, I take offense. I'm not trying to start a personal fight on here.

As for going back to college and reading more textbooks, that's LONG behind me. I don't know how old you think I am, or how little experience you think I have, but I'm definitely not some kid who just reads books and does nothing but sit at home.

Regardless, I'm not trying to stomp on you or put you down, alright? We all have our bad days, so I'm sorry I said things that way. My apologies. No hard feeling, ok? I don't have any beef with you, nor do I want to create any or have you hold any grudges.

-----

Going back to my post and reading it again... What I should have typed is that you don't want flywheel load to generate boost. Yes, you need some type of load, but you don't want rotational mass to make up that load. Yes, you make more boost in higher gears because you have more load- that's the function of the taller gear. You have more resistance against the engine, so the engine has to "work" harder to push the car, so you generate more airflow and therefore more boost.

I wasn't disagreeing with you on boost requiring load generation- just the fact that you need a heavy flywheel to create that load for boost. Leaving out one word on a post can completely change the meaning of the converstation. My mistake.

The flywheel is there to act as an energy reservoir for the driver. It stores energy so that the driver doesn't have to be as careful with torque application- it's a buffer of sorts. Heavier flywheels make the car easier to drive, but cut down on the responsiveness of the engine. Going to a lighter flywheel will make the car harder to drive (not really), but allow the engine to accelerate faster- which is a good thing for both all-motor and boosted applications. Faster engine acceleration = better boost generation = faster car.

Rotational mass is bad. You only want enough of it to dampen engine vibrations and power pulses (harmonic dampeners etc)- any additional weight is just extra ballast that you need to waste power to turn. If heavier flywheels were better for boost, why do all the OEM boost guys consider lighter flywheels an upgrade?

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/evo/evoflywheels.htm
http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/dr...n/flywheel/?en

So yes, load is needed to generate boost.
No, you don't want that load to come from the flywheel. There's more than enough from the weight of the car.
No, I'm didn't intend to make personal attacks at you. Sorry.

2000Si- you should go for the lightest flywheel that you think would be streetable for you.

[2000Si]

Thank you guys!

Great advice. Good reading.

[Hybrid_Coupe]

anyone who keeps a car oem, stock pistons, stock rods...doesnt run a big enough turbo to fall outta boost no matter what you do...you could be the slowest shifter in the world and not fall outta boost on a t25. or even a small t3. Mitsubishi turbos are SMALL, regardless, a big 16g or a 20g are still small. A lot smaller than mine. I speak from building big HP motors. not from using a stock turbo from some other car. So maybe i should also change the way i think, because not everyone wants to run a big turbo. And I apologize also, i dont take well to getting insulted, and if thats not how you meant it then fine, no hard feelings...we just need to learn that we both have different takes on things.